[quote]The time spent on the upkeep of a mall would be the same whether you are in that mall or in a different one.[/quote] yeah but the thing is, if you're managing a mall you're in, the good you do to it will act as a motivator to keep on doing it since chances are, your own sales will go up. As psychologists would say... Postive reinforcement. However, if you're managing a mall that you're not in, the good you do to it, wont affect you. If you're not being "rewarded" for something you do, chances are, that behaviour will get stamped out so you either get bored, sick of it, etc in the long run. You might put up with it for a month maybe but then it starts fading as mentioned in my previous post. --------------------------------------------- Celebrate [color=red]Xmas[/color] at [color=green]Xmart[/color]. Buy a tent for your pet today! http://www.neopets.com/browseshop.phtml?owner=dmitri_stanislaus

[quote] However, if you're managing a mall that you're not in, the good you do to it, wont affect you. If you're not being "rewarded" for something you do, chances are, that behaviour will get stamped out so you either get bored, sick of it, etc in the long run. You might put up with it for a month maybe but then it starts fading as mentioned in my previous post. [/quote] And that is exactly the reasoning behind why its not acceptable. I don't see why anyone would think its a good idea for someone to run a different mall than the one they are in, if this is most likely going to be the end result. Yes - there are people that can probably run a separate mall successfully, but overall I believe a majority of the people can't handle it for various reasons. There are always going to be exceptions to the rules, there are always going to be gray areas, but when looking at the full picture head on most of the time its going to be unacceptable because they're going to be starting a mall meant to fail from the beginning and screwing a bunch of people over. Now when talking about adults running malls, of course I agree with you on that. I look back on how I acted when I first joined until now and a lot has changed. Younger users tend to bicker more and their reasoning behind things aren't as substantial. But again, thinking of gray areas there are probably a lot of adults that aren't mature enough to run a mall either. So its up to the person whether or not they want to try it and face some backlash from people that don't agree with what they're doing, and if they can keep the mall running for quite a long time successfully and keep it growing then all power to them. And once that point is met I see no reasoning behind accepting what they're doing, but there are circumstances to where people need to prove their being genuine about what they're doing and not doing something to stroke their ego's cause they want to be cool on an online site. http://www.neopets.com/browseshop.phtml?owner=evilbluemunkeyz

[quote=Dmitri]yeah but the thing is, if you're managing a mall you're in, the good you do to it will act as a motivator to keep on doing it since chances are, your own sales will go up. As psychologists would say... Postive reinforcement. However, if you're managing a mall that you're not in, the good you do to it, wont affect you. If you're not being "rewarded" for something you do, chances are, that behaviour will get stamped out so you either get bored, sick of it, etc in the long run. You might put up with it for a month maybe but then it starts fading as mentioned in my previous post. [/quote] I got a kick out of your response because I'm a psychologist :) The idea behind positive reinforcement stems from operant conditioning. Where an action is started based on a reward/punishment. Extinction occurs when that reward/punishment is removed; over time, the action occurs less often until such a point as it stops. In the example, you've explained what the reward would be for you if you ran a mall (and maybe you do, if I remember from some posts I've seen you make). But here's the crux of the matter: I'd assume that people who are looking after other people's malls find inherent value in providing the service. It's an internal reward rather than an external one. That's not to say that it's a thankless job. Whether you're in the mall your helping or not, the members do send their thanks in various ways. So for someone to start running a mall they were not in, they would likely find some inherent value in it that excluded receiving the benefit of that effort; and that same reinforcement would prompt them to continue the task.

Ahh but that's the thing. The target market of neopets is young children. Many of them have not developed the appreciation of "thanks". Just like how adults think beyond the big picture and appreciate thoughts as opposed to physical objects. (remember the "it's the thought that counts" line?) Kids just go "Ohh Santie Clause I want a walkman, a PS3, an exBox... blah blah blah blah) Basically what i'm getting at is, reinforcers such as a word of thanks only work to a certain degree and then stop (especially for younger minds). Something physical like increased sales, however benefit them directly. Just like a kid would go beserk if s/he got an Xbox 360 or something. It also applies to adults but at a lesser degree since adults generally are able to control their emotions. --------------------------------------------- Celebrate [color=red]Xmas[/color] at [color=green]Xmart[/color]. Buy a tent for your pet today! http://www.neopets.com/browseshop.phtml?owner=dmitri_stanislaus

All the points made are valid and I ten to agree with the psychologist. The question was is it acceptable and that seems to be the debate not whether it is possible. It would take an insider or a very curious person to see that I am managing a different mall than the one I am part of so the "acceptableness" would be decided among those in my mall or the one I am managing. This means that it comes down to the opinions of those in the mall I am managing and the manager of the mall I am in -- not the public/general opinions of outsiders. I am annoyed by this thread because this sounds too much like "drama" to me. I AVOID drama and dramatic people as much as I possibly can. I prefer to deal with facts instead of feelings especially when it comes to a game on the internet with complete strangers. Whether this is acceptable is a subjective / feeling type question instead of a factual / objective question. We're playing a global game and there are gajillions of "feelings" about whether something is acceptable or not. *two cents given* ~ Mimi temps_bons graphics ~ http://www.neopets.com/~Mimi_Miaulement

[quote=Dmitri]Ahh but that's the thing. The target market of neopets is young children. Many of them have not developed the appreciation of "thanks". Just like how adults think beyond the big picture and appreciate thoughts as opposed to physical objects. (remember the "it's the thought that counts" line?) Kids just go "Ohh Santie Clause I want a walkman, a PS3, an exBox... blah blah blah blah) Basically what i'm getting at is, reinforcers such as a word of thanks only work to a certain degree and then stop (especially for younger minds). Something physical like increased sales, however benefit them directly. Just like a kid would go beserk if s/he got an Xbox 360 or something. It also applies to adults but at a lesser degree since adults generally are able to control their emotions.[/quote] I think we've moved beyond the idea whether it's appropriate for someone to run a mall they're not in. Singling out children and saying they are lees likely to give 'thanks', isn't really an argument against someone running a mall they are not in. As I said, the reward for running such a mall is more likely to be internal rather than external. It's also more likely that adults or more mature/dedicated people are in malls, especially the larger ones, so the argument isn't taking in all the relevant details. It may be that you don't like the idea of running a mall you're not in, so you find it hard to understand how someone else would want to. Understand that there are many rewards to running a mall; verbal thanks, increased sales, social contact, being part of a community, improving management skills, increased 'neo-status', inherent satisfaction of doing a job well, being capable of providing a service (and recognised for it), and the occasional gift from a mall member. There are many others of lesser importance. Many of these also apply to those who aren't in the mall they are running. Saying "there's no reward, so they won't do it for long" isn't accurate. You're just unaware of all the factors. That other people are running malls they are not in, is an indication that they have different priorities than you do. That it's happening and continuing is an indication that people are willing to do it without the direct benefits to their shop. [quote=temps_bons]All the points made are valid and I ten to agree with the psychologist. The question was is it acceptable and that seems to be the debate not whether it is possible. It would take an insider or a very curious person to see that I am managing a different mall than the one I am part of so the "acceptableness" would be decided among those in my mall or the one I am managing. This means that it comes down to the opinions of those in the mall I am managing and the manager of the mall I am in -- not the public/general opinions of outsiders. I am annoyed by this thread because this sounds too much like "drama" to me. I AVOID drama and dramatic people as much as I possibly can. I prefer to deal with facts instead of feelings especially when it comes to a game on the internet with complete strangers. Whether this is acceptable is a subjective / feeling type question instead of a factual / objective question. We're playing a global game and there are gajillions of "feelings" about whether something is acceptable or not. *two cents given* [/quote] I agree. At the end of the day, it comes down to the individuals involved as to whether they find it acceptable. Each person has the right to decide whether they want to be in a specific mall. It's the same deal as malls that post ads compared to those that don't, or what size the mall is, or the name (theme), how active the mall expects members to be, etc. People will generally flow towards the mall they are suited to. But saying that, the idea of this thread was to find out how many people thought it was acceptable. The reasons why naturally followed. And I enjoy a good debate :P Also, I don't really feel like some neopians are strangers :) I've seen some names repeatedly over the years. Some I just see (their posts) regularly, others I speak to regularly. I feel some connection to these people, even if they're unaware of it.